Was it worth it?

Well, the entire thread (the last two posts) has finally ended. The Titusonenine “elves” (those who mind the weblog) have shut us down.
I do understand what the guy is saying: the whole of Scripture speaks against same-sex relationships that include certain behaviors and that all examples of same-sex behaviors are negative and that there are no positive examples, either. So, whether there are positive qualities in same-sex relationships that include certain behaviors makes no difference, Scripture speaks consistently against all forms of behavior, period.
I contend that the presumption that all forms of same-sex relationships is a faulty premise to begin with and that this faulty premise clouds our right reading of Scripture, particularly of those few verses traditionally strung together to justify a anti-relationship position.
I agree that the examples of same-sex behaviors mentioned in Scripture are negative – but negative like: gang rape, in the progression of idolatry heterosexuals engaging in same-sex sexual behaviors contrary to their heterosexual nature. All examples present a negative image, but all the examples of negative behavior are in fact negative, whether engaged in by homosexual people or heterosexual people.
Of course, when Paul uses the word “nature” in Romans chapter 1, what does he in fact mean? “Natural Theology” had not been developed yet. And even if this were the case and we could look to all of nature, God’s creation, to discern what is proper and what is not, how does one neglect examples of same-sex sexual behavior among animals (I’ve seen plenty of male dogs mount other male dogs, etc.). What does one do with human hermaphrodites? And, if we are consistent, look at the violence within the animal kingdom. Do we want to take this as our example of a right ordering of human society? It looks more like “social Darwinism – survival of the fittest” than the call of Christ to love our neighbor as ourselves.
From what I understand, the prevailing Hellenistic (Platonic) definition of “nature” is more like one is left-handed by nature, blue-eyed by nature, tall by nature, a man by nature, etc. Thus, if Paul was trying to explain something to the people then, did he use a Platonic understanding of “nature?” If he did, then “nature” should be understood to imply “heterosexuals by nature” who are engaging in homosexual sexual acts contrary to the “nature,” likewise, if there in fact is a “homosexual orientation,” then if homosexuals engage in heterosexual sexual acts then they, too, are acting contrary to their homosexual “nature.”
But then again, lots of people disagree with this line of thinking. I don’t really know within a Jewish system what “nature” might mean. We can certainly assume that if the Jews of the time where obedient in obeying the Law, then men would not be engaged in things like what a man does with a woman with another man.
By the way in answering one of my many questions of him (which aside from this one he refused to answer), it was made clear that his method of engaging Scripture is within an interpretive system that is not Anglican. He seems to be a premillennial dispensationalist, which if fine if one wants to be because God only knows what the end will look like, but it is not an Anglican theological perspective. I wonder what he understands Anglicanism to be, and why he would attend and Anglican church, and why he finds it rewarding to post on an Anglican blog. Who knows.
Anyway, the Triduum continues, Easter is shortly upon us. The grave will not hold!

I just love Christians, part 2

So, after my lengthy post (read the receding post), my protagonist continued to ask:
“I kindly invite you Bob G+ to provide sufficient detail on the particular forms of same-sex behavior that you believe are not forbidden by God.”
I thought and wrote and thought some more in an attempt to come up with a new way of presenting the “material” that just might make a dent in his armor. I decided to ask how he thought I would respond. You can read his responses (posts #125 & #126).
Here is how I finally responded:
——-
Truth Unites…Truth Divides –
You wrote: “My hope and prayer, as you meet and are led by the Holy Spirit in prayer and in His Word, is that you are led by intellectual honesty and spiritual integrity…”
This part of your sentence is exactly what I have done over the past 30 years. And that searching, seeking, praying, studying, discerning, listening, humbling myself, wrestling, more studying, more praying, has lead me with all integrity and intellectual honesty to conclude that Scripture, rightly divided and rightly understood in proper context and intent, does not say what anti-inclusion folks want/demand it to say. Scripture does not condemn all forms of gay relationships.
Now, if you can’t accept that this is where the Spirit of God has lead me (and an increasing numbers of people in all Christian communities), I can’t help it – as you alluded to in your second post directly above, my judge is my Savior (thankfully), and in His providence and grace I commend my soul, my future, my hope, my salvation, my joy, my sorrow, my life. In Him I live and move and have my being.

Continue reading

iPod Shuffle – 4:14 pm

Out of great silence, comes tunes:
1. Kate Bush, Wow, from ‘Lionheart’
2. Howie Day, End of Our Days, from ‘Stop All the World’
3. The Benedictine Monks of Santo Dominico, Anon: Ut Queant Laxis Resonare Fibris (I think), from ‘Chant II’
4. Fleetwood Mac, Go Your Own Way, from ‘Greatest Hits’
5. Fleetwood Mac, Sara, from ‘Greatest Hits’
6. Aimee Mann, Just Like Anyone, from ‘Bachelor #2’
7. ‘Wicked, Defying Gravity, from ‘Original Cast Recording’
8. U2, With Or Without You, from ‘Joshua Tree’
9. John Coltrane, Lush Life, from ‘The Gentle Side of…’
10. Lone Justice, Shelter, from ‘Shelter’
The rules, for bloggers who want to play:

Get your ipod or media-player of choice, select your whole music collection, set the thing to shuffle (i.e., randomized playback), then post the first ten songs that come out. No cheating, no matter how stupid it makes you feel!

Idea originally from Fr. Jim Tucker of Dappled Things

The City #12

Here is a nice review of Into Great Silence from the Washington Post.
I was talking to some seminarians last week who went to see the movie. The movie has been held over three times now. Anyway, they said in a full theater the movie started – silence. Silence continued. And more silence. When the movie ended and as everyone filed out, suddenly someone realized as they were talking to a friend who was to see the next showing that…. wait for it…. wait for it… the theater never played the soundtrack!
The entire theater sat through the whole movie in shear and utter silence – nothing. Well, you can imagine, especially after reading the review from the Post, that the theater goers were a bit upset. They complained to the manager. They requested compensation. The manager basically said, “If all of you sat through an entire movie with no sound and didn’t tell anyone, you’re all idiots and don’t deserve a refund!”
Now, generally, I would agree. However, this movie is entitled “Into Great Silence” and it was playing in arguably the most “art-house” theater in New York City. It is not unreasonable to think a silent movie was simply an artistic trick.
Too funny.

The same

I just returned from seeing the movie “300,” the fictionalized story of the Spartan defeat of the Persians a very long time ago. Two weeks ago, I saw “Into Great Silence,” the documentary of the life of the Carthusian monks of the Grande Chartreuse. Most people will say that there could not be a better example of two movies so profoundly different – opposite sides of a continuum between quiet serenity and brutal, brash violence. I’m just thinking…
And it is a true statement, but there is a profound similarity in these two movies of men and about men. You see, the men depicted in Into Great Silence and the men depicted in 300 have one thing in common – they all gave and continue to give their lives for something greater than themselves. They sacrifice(d) their lives for something beyond themselves. One group sacrifices for the work of God and the salvation of humanity. The other group sacrificed for freedom and for the salvation from annihilation and slavery of the people of Sparta. Regardless, they give and gave up their own lives, these men did and do. The Religious cast and the Warrior cast, represented in these two films.
What does it mean to be a man? I read again and again of the crisis in the development of boys, the depression of men, the lack of purpose, lack of direction – it is all around us. This is nothing new, but it seems to have reached destabilizing proportions over the past 30 years or so. What does it mean to be a woman?
There used to be a sense that it is a virtue to give of oneself to something beyond oneself. Women gave in the caring for their families and the rearing of children. Men gave in supporting and protecting their families and their nation. These are stereotypic roles, of course, and generalizations, yet in them we find a mechanism for the living for something or someone beyond oneself. There was purpose, direction, and security in knowing what was expected. These “old fashion” notions have fallen away, but what are we left with?
There is coming a time, and I believe we are in the beginning stages, when the true nature of men will be reasserted, but there is no longer the cultural call to and so few examples of virtuous expressions of manhood. They have been expunged for the sake of political correctness. We no longer teach boys how to be “men,” but rather to deny their maleness for androgyny. Maleness is to be engineered out of boys because it is “naturally contrary to the benefit of women’s equality.” Women should be equal.
My fear is, since men have been relieved of the oh, so terrible stereotypical role of provider and protector of families (witness how easy it is for men to relinquish any responsibility to provide for their children and families, too easy to abandon them), my fear is that what will be left are men who are completely self-absorbed and prone to irresponsible expressions of maleness through violence and banality. I fear that maleness will be reasserted in new forms of barbarism to the detriment of a good and ordered society. Do we not see this happening all over the world?
Societal changes needed to come, and they have. As Paul said, there is neither male nor female with regards to the place of each within the purview of God’s good work and will for us. The sexes are equal. Culturally, even within Christendom, this has hardly been the case, and still isn’t. We do not listen very well.
Within two generations, we have generally lost the meaning of womanhood and manhood. There has been a feminization of men and the masculinization of women. I know that there are still those who demand that the two sexes are essentially the same and there should be no distinction made between them – women can do “men’s” work and men can do “women’s” work. Yes, they can for the most part. Aren’t we liberated!
The problem is that the sexes are not the same. Most people understand this, but those with their hands on the levers of power and influence for the last few decades do not agree. They have had the upper hand. The social sciences are realizing the differences, although there are still the die-hards who will never countenance such a surrendering of the politically correct dogma. In the striving to prove that men can be womanly (their feminine side) and women can be manly (their masculine side), we have completely lost who we are as men and as women.
I don’t advocate a return to the 1950’s, but I would push for admitting that the social experiments with gender over the last 50 years have not worked to bring about a new utopia, or even to realize the equality of the sexes.
What has happened? When the women’s liberation movement got into full swing, and there needed to be such a push, what tended to develop was an internalized rejection of what had been traditionally feminine. Rather than women realizing the unique qualities of the feminine and demanding that men give those qualities their equal dew, a good many “liberated” women simply took upon themselves the worst of male characteristics. In order to be free and equal, women had to be like men. Conversely, for women to be free from male domination, men had to be brought down a notch – meaning they had to be “feminized” – the new-age sensitive kind of guy.
What are men, really, if they are not providers and protectors? It is inbred, whether through evolution or by a divine act of God. We can deny it all we want, we can try to force men to be something they are not, but they will return to what they are, eventually. And we are. The question is whether we will realize the best of what manhood really is, or whether we will realize the worst – and the best will not be realized if the push continues to deny what is essentially male. Women are the great civilizers of men, frankly, and if women reject that role as they pursue equality, then what we are left with are men who are, again, brutes and barbarians.
We need to find a new way of expressing the nature of men and the nature of women that does not deny who and what we truly are – our best qualities lived into for the betterment of society and for something other than our individual selves. There needs to be a new recognition that women can really be feminine and men can really be masculine and the qualities of the two are equally needed and should be equally esteemed. Otherwise, we are left with Parish Hiltons who return women to being sex-objects (and women who believe their self-worth comes from objectification), and men who live completely irresponsible, banal, and violent lives, and more then willing to objectify women.

Integrity

The vestry of one of the largest Episcopal churches in Colorado voted to align with the Convocation of Anglicans in North America (CANA), ruled by Archbishop Akinola of Nigeria, and declared that they are no longer be a part of The Episcopal Church – USA. The rector had been inhibited (not allowed to function as a priest in the diocese) by his bishop due to “financial irregularities” until all the investigations had ended. They are ongoing. With the vote to align with CANA, the priest returned to the parish because he said it was no longer an Episcopal church but a CANA church, so he is no longer subject to his “former” bishop’s authority. In an article in the Rocky Mountain News, the Rector of the parish made a few statements. I want to make a comment after the portion of the article below:
Episcopal parish secedes from Colorado diocese
By Jean Torkelson, Rocky Mountain News

March 26, 2007 As its banned rector watched, the vestry board of one of Colorado’s largest Episcopal parishes, Grace and St. Stephen’s in Colorado Springs, voted this morning to secede from the Episcopal Diocese of Colorado — and the national church, as well.
At the same time, the Rev. Don Armstrong took back control of the 2,000-member parish for the first time since being put under investigation in December by Bishop Rob O’Neill for what the diocese called “misapplied funds.”
“I am sitting in my office for the first time in three months,” Armstrong said in a telephone interview. “Now that I’m no longer a priest under Rob O’Neill’s authority I can say or do what I want.
“I’m going to publicly clear my name by refuting his accusations,” he said. Furthermore, he said, “The national church and the House of Bishops have made it clear there’s no place or tolerance for conservative, orthodox Episcopalians.” (emphasis mine)

My point is that in most dioceses under most bishops that are liberal, conservatives do have a place. Granted, they often are not paid attention to (which is a mistake in my opinion), but a place is to be had. What most diocese and bishops, whether liberal or conservative, will not provide a place for a priest or a vestry voting to seperate from the Episcopal Church or the diocese. There is a big difference!
If it becomes blatantly clear that the priest, vestry, or by parish vote (whether conservative or liberal) that they are intent on separating from the diocese and their bishop, why should they expect an equal place at the table in the diocese when the bishop has a fiduciary duty to protect the interests of the diocese and the people who choose to remain Episcopalians? So, if a priest or a vestry or even by a parish vote, there is a decision to no longer recognize the canons of The Episcopal Church, the Church period, or the authority of the bishop of the Episcopal diocese, then they have decided to no longer have a place in that diocese. In that case, why is there an expectation for a place or surprise when the bishop inhibits the priest, removes the vestry, and takes control of the Episcopal parish? In the polity of TEC, that parish is his/hers (the bishop’s) – it belongs to the diocese.
I have witnessed the prejudice and negative reactions by officials in liberal dioceses toward the conservatives within the diocese. The reactions, actions, and attitudes of these liberals are wrong (really they are not liberals, but rather anti-conservatives – true liberals do provide an honest place at the table even for those with whom they have the most disagreement). The counter-reactions of the conservatives to move towards repudiating their very church, diocese, and bishop are also wrong.
As is often said, people are free to come and go into and out of Episcopal parishes, but the church is not anything other than Episcopalian. I have much more respect for those people/parishes who according to their own conscious must leave the denomination and who do leave and form a new church, than those who repudiate their organizational structures and canons and attempt to deliberately do what they know they do not have the legal or canonical authority to do.

The City #11

After getting off the subway and walking to my coffee & pastry place before work, I saw a black car-service pull up to the curb. New York car-service cars are almost always black, Ford, and have darkened windows.
A man and a woman step out, dressed in jeans. They embrace for a good bit, kiss, and continue.
He gets back into the car and she hurries off with shoulder bags and a pony-tail. As the car slowly pulls away back into traffic, it comes up beside her.
Her head turns, oh so slightly, as she glances back to the car and her beloved within. She probably could not see within, but I suspect he turned his head, perhaps ever so slightly, to see one last time his beloved.
A romantic notion, I know. But, why not? Day-in-and-day-out, we pass through this world. We perceive and we believe. Love, real love, still abounds.